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Test Proving Grounds Server

S4NTA

Member
Well, with the current test proving grounds server people still get dropped in the same number of crits, it only balances pvp so that other styles can flourish, I don't really see any downsides to this even with the conquest system.
 

Mrpisquallie

Well-Known Member
Slicer
Well, with the current test proving grounds server people still get dropped in the same number of crits, it only balances pvp so that other styles can flourish, I don't really see any downsides to this even with the conquest system.
The number of crits it takes on the test PG is 5 on the live server it takes 4.

I would still prefer crits to be more effective. As it is now on the PG, 5 crits lands you a kill but so does 6 normal swings... I like the fact that normal attacks hit harder but i think the cap should be raised back to 4 crits being able to drop someone. This way crits are still viable and normal hits are still very effective as well. Having a one swing difference between the two simply doesn't make sense as most people cannot consistently land 5 crits on someone consecutively in a large tgen fight. This seems to me to be a good middle ground, both sides can have what they are after. Strafers can rest easy knowing they can pump out damage and crits still feel worthwhile to go for.

TLDR: Raise the damage to 40% for strafers with a cap allowing people to be killed in 4 crits like normal.
 

S4NTA

Member
So, I've done some more testing and found some interesting results... I recorded a video of critting people both on the live version of the server and the PG test server. For all of the kills in the video, I had STR II, and Sharp 5, I was getting crits with a full damage indicator. The person I was killing didn't have any regen buffs or regen from hunger, and they were in full prot 4. Keep in mind I did more kills than shown in the video, totaling probably 10 kills on both the test and main server, if you want feel free to try it yourself. This is what I found:


I was a little surprised after doing this, I found that damage was not really reliable, and had RNG (correct me if there is something I am not accounting for, if so it would lower the high end back down). I also found that the lowest number of hits I could kill someone with was 5, both on the current test build and the main server. So the number of crits to kill someone on both the test PG server and live version are the same, but both vary in the amount of hits it takes to kill someone seemingly from some RNG component to damage ( I encourage others to try this/record). While sometimes it would take more, the average amount of crits to kill someone on both the main and test server seemed to be 5 hits, occasionally 6 hits. Perhaps there is the odd occasion that lets you 4 hit someone on the main server, but I didn't get any 4 hit kills from my own testing. This is probably good because dying once in awhile to oddly powerful crits isn't very fun. What was weird is the one occasion on the main server where it took 7 hits, though It's possible it was a fluke where they regen'd half a heart right as I hit the 6th crit, allowing them to survive. It never took me 7 crits to kill someone on the test server. Infact, I found that killing people was actually easier on the test server because of the more reliable damage, this is because damage went up from 33% to 40% as said above, even though damage is hard capped, it is fairly often that the cap is hit (while critting only) and this damage is consistently hitting the cap because of the buff, whilst on the main server there is some RNG that you will do a little less damage than on the test server. I think this will carry over to conquest fights well, while the low end of amount of crits to kill is still the same, it is more consistently 5 crits on the test server. In addition, non-crits deal more damage on the test server (for the purpose of allowing varying and more traditional pvp styles, putting W A S D on an even playing field with spacebar) meaning that not only are crits doing the same damage, but your average hits are doing more damage, so it seems to follow that it will be even easier to kill people in conquest fights, without the one off 4 hit death (though I couldn't replicate the 4 hit).

Before going into the benefits of the current PG test server build, ill give my opinion on my favorite of the 3 different pvp configs so far. The first PG test server. I liked the initial configuration, To be able to defeat an opponent you needed consistent aiming and strafes to take them down, It gave newer players a chance to not get crit out right away, while also allowing very skilled players to shine by getting combos juking someone out. More time could be spent fighting and trying to outmaneuver your opponent, more potions were able to be used effectively without spamming them out and it felt much more smooth to fight. Crits were still impactful enough to matter, and definitely would be useful to quickdrop someone. I never did any tests like the video shown above for the first test build, but it did seem to take slightly longer to kill people, allowing a lot more health pots to be used. There is a decent counter argument to this config, as on the main server many people don't want their conquest fights to be too long, which for me isn't a problem as my previous server had 8 hour long sieges. Though I personally don't think even with the first PG test kit that conquest fights would go over 1 hour, so long as one side was forcing a fight and not allowing the other to easily rebuff. However, if this was a problem you could disable shulker boxes in conquest fights, reducing the amount of pots that would be used in a fight while also making each hit more impactful as supplies are limited. Though I understand some people wouldn't want to change the refill meta, as it allows people to go on ridiculous undying rampages.

With my own ideal config out of the way, I think the current PG test build is an overall quality of life improvement to the server without changing the conquest meta. The length of conquest fights should be very very similar; If anything people would use pots slightly quicker in conquest fights, no need to nerf shulker boxes or worry about fight times. As for general PVP, it allows people to do more than try to crit spam, strafing will be much more viable especially in open areas. Critting will still be the strongest way to pvp, so long as your aim is good enough to hit the person strafing around you. Overall, PvP will be more variable, allow for more diverse styles outside from loka, and still keep the meta the same for skilled players and conquest fight times in check.
 

ArcherSquid

Active Member
Slicer
So, I've done some more testing and found some interesting results... I recorded a video of critting people both on the live version of the server and the PG test server. For all of the kills in the video, I had STR II, and Sharp 5, I was getting crits with a full damage indicator. The person I was killing didn't have any regen buffs or regen from hunger, and they were in full prot 4. Keep in mind I did more kills than shown in the video, totaling probably 10 kills on both the test and main server, if you want feel free to try it yourself. This is what I found:


I was a little surprised after doing this, I found that damage was not really reliable, and had RNG (correct me if there is something I am not accounting for, if so it would lower the high end back down). I also found that the lowest number of hits I could kill someone with was 5, both on the current test build and the main server. So the number of crits to kill someone on both the test PG server and live version are the same, but both vary in the amount of hits it takes to kill someone seemingly from some RNG component to damage ( I encourage others to try this/record). While sometimes it would take more, the average amount of crits to kill someone on both the main and test server seemed to be 5 hits, occasionally 6 hits. Perhaps there is the odd occasion that lets you 4 hit someone on the main server, but I didn't get any 4 hit kills from my own testing. This is probably good because dying once in awhile to oddly powerful crits isn't very fun. What was weird is the one occasion on the main server where it took 7 hits, though It's possible it was a fluke where they regen'd half a heart right as I hit the 6th crit, allowing them to survive. It never took me 7 crits to kill someone on the test server. Infact, I found that killing people was actually easier on the test server because of the more reliable damage, this is because damage went up from 33% to 40% as said above, even though damage is hard capped, it is fairly often that the cap is hit (while critting only) and this damage is consistently hitting the cap because of the buff, whilst on the main server there is some RNG that you will do a little less damage than on the test server. I think this will carry over to conquest fights well, while the low end of amount of crits to kill is still the same, it is more consistently 5 crits on the test server. In addition, non-crits deal more damage on the test server (for the purpose of allowing varying and more traditional pvp styles, putting W A S D on an even playing field with spacebar) meaning that not only are crits doing the same damage, but your average hits are doing more damage, so it seems to follow that it will be even easier to kill people in conquest fights, without the one off 4 hit death (though I couldn't replicate the 4 hit).

Before going into the benefits of the current PG test server build, ill give my opinion on my favorite of the 3 different pvp configs so far. The first PG test server. I liked the initial configuration, To be able to defeat an opponent you needed consistent aiming and strafes to take them down, It gave newer players a chance to not get crit out right away, while also allowing very skilled players to shine by getting combos juking someone out. More time could be spent fighting and trying to outmaneuver your opponent, more potions were able to be used effectively without spamming them out and it felt much more smooth to fight. Crits were still impactful enough to matter, and definitely would be useful to quickdrop someone. I never did any tests like the video shown above for the first test build, but it did seem to take slightly longer to kill people, allowing a lot more health pots to be used. There is a decent counter argument to this config, as on the main server many people don't want their conquest fights to be too long, which for me isn't a problem as my previous server had 8 hour long sieges. Though I personally don't think even with the first PG test kit that conquest fights would go over 1 hour, so long as one side was forcing a fight and not allowing the other to easily rebuff. However, if this was a problem you could disable shulker boxes in conquest fights, reducing the amount of pots that would be used in a fight while also making each hit more impactful as supplies are limited. Though I understand some people wouldn't want to change the refill meta, as it allows people to go on ridiculous undying rampages.

With my own ideal config out of the way, I think the current PG test build is an overall quality of life improvement to the server without changing the conquest meta. The length of conquest fights should be very very similar; If anything people would use pots slightly quicker in conquest fights, no need to nerf shulker boxes or worry about fight times. As for general PVP, it allows people to do more than try to crit spam, strafing will be much more viable especially in open areas. Critting will still be the strongest way to pvp, so long as your aim is good enough to hit the person strafing around you. Overall, PvP will be more variable, allow for more diverse styles outside from loka, and still keep the meta the same for skilled players and conquest fight times in check.
I'm certain that towns get a resistance perk while leveling, this may be why it takes more crits to kill in town rather than PG.
 

Cryptite

Elder
Staff member
Elder
I'm certain that towns get a resistance perk while leveling, this may be why it takes more crits to kill in town rather than PG.
Correct, which increases the health regen per health-regain event by 1 and 2 respectively for Regen I and II. You also lose hunger less quickly with the perks as well. Be sure you check out /g perks in your town and note that you can toggle town-wide perks on/off with /g perks on/off. That likely explains the disparity vs PG.

And these effects only take place in town.
 

Mrpisquallie

Well-Known Member
Slicer
To get a more accurate test you should use proving grounds 1 for the test damage and proving grounds 2 for the live test. I can guarantee that 4 crits kill on live, as long as they have no regent from food or pots. Also damage is not rng, a fully charged crit does the same damage every time. The reason it may seem rng is let's say a crit can do (This isn't the right number, sku probably knows the right number) 2.2 hearts which will show on your character as 2 hearts of damage. The next swing does 2.2 so it shows as 2 hearts again because the character receiving damage has now taken 4.4 heart loss. The next swing will bring them down 2.5 hearts because after the 2.2 hearts being lost they will have lost 6.6 hearts. I hope this makes sense.
 
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S4NTA

Member
I'm certain that towns get a resistance perk while leveling, this may be why it takes more crits to kill in town rather than PG.
Ah, that would make sense for sure. I assumed there wasn't regen because it didn't show up as a buff. It looks like it buffs the natural regen. I guess that would mean the varying of crits to kill was dependant on how much time was between crits and unlucky timing of them regening health, but it's odd that the number of hits to kill seemed to vary on the Test PG server, maybe they were still regening even though everyone told me they weren't. I'll test it out again, but this time on both PG test servers, If it is due to regen, im guessing it could be 4 crits and 5 on the test server, but not sure yet. Even so, the increased damage of normal hits would still keep conquest times in check.
 

S4NTA

Member
Ah, that would make sense for sure. I assumed there wasn't regen because it didn't show up as a buff. It looks like it buffs the natural regen. I guess that would mean the varying of crits to kill was dependant on how much time was between crits and unlucky timing of them regening health, but it's odd that the number of hits to kill seemed to vary on the Test PG server, maybe they were still regening even though everyone told me they weren't. I'll test it out again, but this time on both PG test servers, If it is due to regen, im guessing it could be 4 crits and 5 on the test server, but not sure yet. Even so, the increased damage of normal hits would still keep conquest times in check.
Did some more testing, Conclusion is 4 crits 7 regular hits on main server to kill. 5 Crits 7 regular hits on test server to kill. Though, persumable (with no high detail hp mods) the test server crits have a slightly higher hidden damage value meaning you could potentially kill someone a hit faster if they are already low, compared to main server. Pretty sure my conclusions from the earlier post are still pretty valid and the test server is a better option.

P.S. the reason I was gettitng varying damage values is because even though on my screen hits were getting displayed as crits (as seen by red crit particles) the full damage wasn't being applied. Crit particles != crits for some reason. So sometimes the hits weren't dealing their full damage.
 
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